«rek» whats the command to compile lets say. stupid.c
[Cypher] lol@Raven
«jobber-d» :P
«jobber-d» rek do you know where one can get partition magic?
«@Raven» oh my god rek are u trying to compile some script kiddie exploit?
«rek» nope
«rek» no, i'm trying to compile a stupid program that i'm writing
«elad» at your local software store, heh
«@Raven» rek, for the sake of it (just don't do anything stupid), it's:
«rek» and i dont wanna do it for windows
«@Raven» gcc source.c -o executable
«jobber-d» for free :)
«@Raven» rek, you'd better be telling the truth...
«rek» if u hack from a shell
«rek» you will get caught
«rek» no doubt about it
«jobber-d» unless you connect from somwhere else and use a differnt username
«elad» not hack, crack.
«rek» well i'm from my house
«elad» you dont need a shell to hack.
«elad» you dont need a computer to hack.
«jobber-d» it helps
«jobber-d» it helps
«rek» hehe
«elad» jobber-d; no.
«jobber-d» hehe
«jobber-d» the best hacking tool: a sharp axe
[Cypher] elad; do you mean Social Engineering?
«@Raven» elad is right, u need a spellbook
«@Raven» Cypher, no
«@Raven» Cypher, do u know the original meaning of hacking?
[Cypher] yeah
«@Raven» uhm i don't think so
«elad» hacking is making furniture out of wood
«@Raven» alright go ahead Cypher, tell us
«jobber-d» haha
«elad» hence, the #ashtray lumberjack
«elad» lumberjackz..
«@Raven» Cypher i don't mean this kinda meaning
«@Raven» ok the OTHER meaning of hack
«@Raven» does anyone here besides me and elad know what this means?
«jobber-d» to be one with the computer (?)
«@Raven» jobber-d, u can do THAT with an axe
«@Raven» i don't mean that kinda thing
«jobber-d» isnt it like being very savvy with a computer, knowing multiple programming codes, multiple OSs, and you
enjoy it?
«@Raven» ok, here's what:
«@Raven» i'll give u 24 hours to find the REAL meaning
«@Raven» jobber-d, no
«@Raven» that's just being a computer wiz
«jobber-d» ah
«@Raven» i'll give u 24 hours to find the REAL meaning
[Cypher] Hacker = A person that is interested in something more then the average expert. A person dedicated to
knowledge. A person driven by curiosity :-) (not exactly correct but the meaning that's worth something)
«jobber-d» i wonder what eric raymond has to say
«@Raven» everyone, come back tomorrow, same time, and we'll discuss this
«jobber-d» alright cool
«@Raven» Cypher, that's a good start
*** Joins: airborne (slipknot@uu212-190-7-198.unknown.uunet.be)
«airborne» lo
«@Raven» hi airborne
«jobber-d» hey
«@Raven» Cypher, i'll help
«airborne» what a nice and warm welcome over here :)
«@Raven» a hacker would try things that are irrational
«@Raven» illogical
«@Raven» things that aren't in the manual
«@Raven» and see what happens
«@Raven» a hacker wants to test his limits
[Cypher] a person trying something out of the defined box
«@Raven» see what he can and can't?
«@Raven» see what he can and can't
«jobber-d» a hacker has an instiable curiotity
«@Raven» who said u cannot drill holes in your computer's box to cool it out?
«@Raven» (it really works btw, makes it a tad faster)
«jobber-d» hehe
«@Raven» that kinda thing
«@Raven» see? now we won't have to meet tomorrow to discuss this
«@Raven» i already gave u the main comcept
*** rek is now known as rek_away
«@Raven» i already gave u the main concept
«@Raven» so in other words:
«jobber-d» not our fault :)
«@Raven» i hacked this and that doesn't mean i cracked into it
«@Raven» it means that i did something rather kewl with it that makes it exceed beyond it's limitations
«@Raven» do something that it's not supposed to do
«@Raven» uncover undocumented features
«airborne» making a bootdisk that has a tiny registry on it is another example of a hack, ain't it right
[Cypher] a hacker is actually a programmer
«@Raven» CREATE undocumented features
«@Raven» sorta
«@Raven» Cypher, not necessarily
[Cypher] usually
«@Raven» he could be a guy with a really large hammer
«elad» being a hacker has nothing to do with computers folks
«@Raven» Cypher modern hackers are usually programmers as well
«jobber-d» exactly
«@Raven» elad exactly
«jobber-d» the man who created the wheel was a hacker. he thought outside the box
* Cypher is gonna try something now - may disconnect (in that case - brb)
«pirx_away» i rather like the definition in the jargonfile
«@Raven» gee, i wanna see if i can fly this really old airship, dated back from World War II, in 300KMPH
«@Raven» jobber-d, right
«elad» being a hacker is first of all a level of understanding what you are, hacking is a state of mind
«@Raven» gee this wood is completely straight
«@Raven» let's bend it in the form of a wheel and see what happens!!
«@Raven» whoa!! it spins around! kewl!!
«pirx_away» for me, hacking is about a passionate curiosity
«jobber-d» a hacker must also be curios
«elad» pirx; the jargon refers to the computer-related term
«pirx_away» elad: well thats the original meaning isnt it:) and not many ppl use it in disparate contexts anyway
«jobber-d» wel not many people realize that a cracker isnt a hacker, either
«elad» a cracker is a hacker that uses his skills in order to break the law
[Cypher] btw, anyone logging this?
«jobber-d» oops
«airborne» yup
«jobber-d» crackers are classified as many things: as someone who decodes programs so they dont need
identification...
«jobber-d» or as a script kiddie...
«jobber-d» or as elad said
«@Raven» but airbone got in here in the middle of the discussion
«elad» being a cracker is far from being a script kiddy
«elad» look at it that way
[Cypher] so i'll just cut&paste from the channel
«@Raven» jobber-d that's another meaning of the word cracker
«elad» assuming you have 3 definitions and 3 types of people
«@Raven» Cypher send me the logs, then
*** Quits: rek_away (rekaerf34@208.25.255.97) (Leaving)
«elad» cracker, hacker, script kiddy
«airborne» cypher i'm logging
[Cypher] k
«airborne» but i ain't got all of it
«@Raven» from the beginning of the discussion
«@Raven» airbone u weren't here at the beginning
«elad» someone who break into systems after understanding them and finding a hole himself is a cracker
«airborne» nope
«@Raven» someone plz copy&paste everything from the beginning of the discussion
[Cypher] i'll do it
«@Raven» yup, although finding the hole yourself might be considered "elite"...
«@Raven» he still broke the law
«@Raven» which is dumb
«@Raven» IMHO
«elad» someone who knows a lot about a certain field (programming, unix) and do work for the community of that field
is a hacker
«airborne» not unless he notifies the ppl who previously 0wned the server/program that contains the hole
«elad» someone who knows nothing but how to compile a pre-written c source or script and use it to gain fame is a
script kiddy
«airborne» _previously_
«elad» heh, you mean telling them you have found a hole and then using it?
«elad» its still cracking
«airborne» not _then_using_it_
«jobber-d» if you find a hole, thats finding a use for the program other then its intent.
«@Raven» airborne, yes, but even if he notifies...
«airborne» telling them and if they don't solve it _show_ them
«@Raven» if he still has bad intentions
«@Raven» he's a cracker
«@Raven» airborne, that's another good point
«airborne» yup, bad intentions are bad
«@Raven» u see, when u find a hole
«@Raven» and tell the vendor
«@Raven» and he keeps ignoring you
«@Raven» there's no other solution but to go public with it
«elad» no
«elad» no no no!
«jobber-d» bugtraq
«@Raven» to force it to take care of it's security
«elad» no!
«jobber-d» hehe
«airborne» and going public means a lotta scriptkiddies jumpin in (bad)
«elad» you do not publish a hole until there's a fix
«@Raven» elad, with instructions for admins
«jobber-d» taking the law into your own hands :)
«elad» look look people
«@Raven» elad but what if they've been ignoring you for months?
«elad» where does script kiddies find their scripts from?
«elad» lists like bugtraq!
«jobber-d» its better then someone else finding out and then using it personally
«elad» understand my point?
«@Raven» you're right
«@Raven» damn right
«@Raven» i agree with u
«jobber-d» what else are you gonna do though, elad?
«elad» you could write your own fix
«@Raven» ok so EVEN if you're being ignored, don't go public, right?
«elad» if its open source - easy
«airborne» keeping it to yourself ain't good either, someone else - with bad intentions - is bound to find it too
«elad» unless you have a fix
«@Raven» elad, so ur saying that if u write a fix u can go public with it?
«jobber-d» elad: everyone would get lz and wouldnt bother anymore to patch their stuff
«@Raven» and send out the fix
«@Raven» let admins have it
«@Raven» but also force the company to release an OFFICIAL fix
«jobber-d» if the good people were doing it
«elad» its a lot easier if its open source though
«airborne» if you ain't got the source then it ain't a fix, but a workaround. And there are ways around workarounds
«@Raven» elad, and if u really can't write a fix, like if u found a bug in, say, NT 4, that allows a malicious
cracker to predict sequence numbers or something
«@Raven» something that u simply cannot write a fix for
«@Raven» since NT is soooooooooo unopen-source
«@Raven» but u do have a workaround...
«@Raven» a temporary fix
«elad» you publish the workaround
«elad» but listen
«@Raven» can u still go public?
«elad» the real experts hang in newsgroups
«elad» many people read newsgroups
«elad» 10 times than the people who read bugtraq
«airborne» m'kay
«pirx_away» hate that when people reason like this: "well i found this hole and told the admin, but he didnt do
anything to fix it, so i exploited it to show him/her how bad security he/she has"
«@Raven» ohh i get your drift!
«elad» so you might want to find some nt newsgroup (maybe on a microsoft server) and release it there
«@Raven» noone searches through usenet for holes!!
«elad» exactly.
«jobber-d» only for plugs
«@Raven» ohh wait but what if someone, could be even someone from bugtraq, finds it and publishes it?
«@Raven» it happened before
«jobber-d» then its out of your hands
«elad» well you cant prevent 100% of the cases can you :)
«airborne» just mail bill@microsoft.com if you don't want it to be in the _right_ hands :)
«@Raven» elad too bad i thought u had another magic workaround
«@Raven» :-)
«@Raven» that usenet idea was good
«elad» a friend of mine came up with an idea that will be a break through in this business
«elad» i cant tell you the idea though
«@Raven» airborne, microsoft has failed to respond to bug reports in most of the times
«airborne» lemme guess, napster for haxors
«@Raven» only after the exploit has been released
«airborne» that's why i was being sarcastic
«elad» airborne; far
«elad» far from it.
«elad» more of a service
«airborne» i'm just kiddin y'all :)
*** Joins: Gap^v^ (hackkk@202.140.124.211)
«@Raven» hey Gap^v^
«jobber-d» wanna see something that will revolutionize stuff? go to freenet.sourceforge.net
«jobber-d» he3y gap
«@Raven» i gtg everyone
«@Raven» send me the logs if u can
«@Raven» barakirs@netvision.net.il
«Gap^v^» i get it~
«Gap^v^» ^^
«@Raven» even if it's not the whole thing
*** Joins: kript0n (kript0n@coias1-p40.telepac.pt)
«@Raven» cya
«jobber-d» cya raven
*** Quits: Raven (~irc@ras2-p139.hfa.netvision.net.il) (Raven has no reason)